Negotiating autonomy. An interview with Léo Chavaz about Pavillion ADC in Geneva

Joanna Leśnierowska: Pavilion ADC in Geneva opened in 2021 but its history goes back quite some time…

Léo Chavaz: The Association pour la Danse Contemporaine (ADC) was founded in 1986 as a kind of grassroots project. It was initiated by a group of people including a choreographer (Noemi Lapzeson) who had come from Argentina to dance at the Ballet du Grand Théâtre (Geneva’s Opera), some people already active in the dance field and some dance-loving members of the public. They had the desire to establish contemporary dance in Geneva, make it visible and share it with audiences. Back then we had only a few contemporary dance presentations in town. In the mid-1970s the festival La Batie was established, and it started to invite dance performances, but there were only a few performances annually. If you want to know more about the history of dance in Geneva, there is a special documentary page created by an association named Retrorama. The ADC adventure began in 1986 with the first performances in a theatre called Salle Patiño. This venue was used by various Geneva-based organisations, working mainly in the field of music and dance. During the first years, they programmed only a few shows a year, with both regional and international artists. After ten years they had to leave the venue, ADC started to programme in different venues in the city. It became a nomadic institution. They were always supporting creation, mostly co-producing, and looking for strategies to make contemporary dance and the institution more visible, especially where there was no theatre dedicated to it. It was during these nomadic years that the ADC launched its own journal with the mission to promote dance… In 1998, the ADC officially formulated the project of building an art centre dedicated to contemporary dance: a “Maison de la danse” (French for a dance-house)

JL: Do you remember what arguments the ADC used to convince the city to build a Maison de la Danse, in the first place?

LC: That’s a good question. I don’t know exactly. What I do know is that it’s been a long struggle to get the city to recognise the importance of dance, but that this struggle happened parallel to a whole generation of very important choreographers in Switzerland, most of whom came from Geneva. So I think this whole generation really helped a lot in the process of recognising the importance of contemporary dance.

Also, the ADC team lobbied hard and for a long time politically to get the authorities to recognise the importance of having an institution dedicated to contemporary dance. And this movement did not solely happen in Geneva, but at the same time all over Switzerland on a national level.

So began an official project of La Maison de la Danse. It was a really big project, in the very French style of the 80s: a big cultural structure with a big venue, many rehearsal studios, all just outside the city, in the small neighbouring town of Lancy. Unfortunately, almost 10 years into the project development, the local government organised a referendum (in 2006) and the citizens of that town voted ‘no’, so the project was rejected. It was a big discussion, but the main argument was, of course, money. It was devastating for the ADC. However, it triggered reflection: the team (among them there was also Anne Davier, now director of the Pavillon) realised that the project was really over-blown. So they decided to approach their dream of a dance space with a new vision, and in 2007 they came up with a new plan, a much smaller project. They drew a rough sketch of a very simple venue on a coffee napkin, a kind of prototype of the Pavillon as it is today. As their project was on a much more feasible scale, the city agreed to work on it. Meanwhile, in 2004, the ADC was also given a temporary venue in a former school. They thought it would only be until the Maison de la Danse was built, but when the project collapsed, the temporary venue had to serve the ADC for… 17 years.

JL: It seems that ‘temporary’ is inscribed in the history of the ADC and the Pavillon … The building you opened in 2021 was also ultimately designed as kind of temporary, movable architecture?

LC: Indeed. The first step in the new project was to find a site. And after examining close to fifty different locations in Geneva, the one that was finally chosen (and which eventually became our place) was also protested by a group of local residents. It was an empty square in a posh neighbourhood of the city. In 2017, when the budget for the construction of the Pavillon was voted on by the city council, a group of people who had their homes or offices near the square decided to fight against the decision of building the Pavillon. The city then negotiated with them and came up with the proposal that the Pavillon would be a building that could be dismantled and rebuilt elsewhere and that the permit for its current location would be for only 8 years (1 year for construction, 7 years for use).

JL: Since the idea and the first sketch of Pavillon on a napkin came directly from the minds of the ADC members, have they been actively involved in all further works?

LC: The ADC has always been very involved in the whole Pavillon project: it’s the ADC team that conceived the overall project, thought about the requirements for the building, fought for its realisation, etc. When the city agreed to construct the building, they were also involved in the design of the architectural project and were part of the jury that decided on the winning proposal. They also closely followed the entire construction process and fought for every little detail. The main operator of the project and owner of the land and the building is the City of Geneva. But the ADC team really helped to design the internal architecture and the technical solutions. And I think that’s why also it’s now a very well-designed and well-thought-out theatre. I think if we had to start the project from scratch again, we would change a few details but nothing fundamental. Maybe just the parts where architects did not follow the ADC’s advice… (smile) And we have just started the process that will hopefully allow us to stay forever in the current location. A few weeks ago, the ADC sent the official letter confirming that we are very happy in our Pavillon and no longer want to build a Maison de la Danse (as the idea was somehow still on some city council paper…). There are economic reasons (building such a large theatre would be very costly), but mainly because nobody believes in the model of humongous centres anymore. Moreover, the City of Geneva has started to build a new stage for dance (and theatre), which will be profiled mainly as a studio/residency centre and a centre for dance education. So the city’s new cultural strategy is now more based on the idea of a constellation with different actors playing different roles that complement each other.

JL: An ecosystem.

LC: Exactly. That way dance is more spread around the city, with different institutions having clear and well-defined missions. In my opinion, this way of thinking is so much more 21st century. I think that having a Pavillon is a much better solution than an oversized Maison de la Danse. Our building is the right size, it’s well-equipped, but not too fancy. Everyone who works here (both the team and the artists) is really happy about the scale and the realisation of the building. And the audience also feels at home!

JL: And how do you manage on a daily basis without rehearsal studios in the Pavillon? You have been running 3 studios in the Grutli Art Center for many years…

LC: Yes, the studios are about a 15-minute walk from the Pavillon and of course it’s not an ideal situation. It feels quite disconnected from our daily work—we miss regular connection to artists working there, who may also not feel directly connected to Pavillon. We have a mandate from the city to manage the 3 studios and that is why when coordinating the work there, we have our priorities—first, we secure artists that we co-produce, and then those that are co-produced by other institutions in the city. And then we make the studios available  free of charge to the local scene. The booking is very flexible, some artists book for whole weeks of residency, others just for 2 hrs on specific days… We try to stay very flexible to meet the needs of the community. The nice thing is that the artists do not need to be programmed by the ADC to have access to the studio. It is enough to send us an e-mail, find a spot in the calendar and get the access codes to the rooms. At the end of the month, everyone in Geneva often knows the code… That way artists share this resource and kind of manage it themselves. The big minus is that we do not have apartments for artists, so in practice the studios are mostly used by regional artists who can get to and around Geneva by their own means. We only have one or two international residencies a year, which we need to finance ourselves. We would love to do more of these in the future. Even though the ADC’s main mission is supporting regional creation, we have started to also co-produce artists on an international basis in recent years. The ADC has always welcomed international shows, that’s always been part of the mission. But international co-production is an extension of that mission. It is about building long-term relationships and nurturing the local scene.  Exposure to international artists is really enriching, both for the audience and for the local scene. We strongly believe in that.

JL: Do you use the studios for public events like open workshops or informal presentations?

LC: Yes, sure, there are some workshops and classes, and sometimes we have performances in the studios, for example in November we’re going to use the studios to show some performances in the framework of Emergentia—a festival for emerging artists that we co-organize with the residency centre L’Abri and the Théâtre de l’Usine. At the Pavillon, we do a lot of collaborations, big and small. For example, every year we collaborate with festivals like La Batie, with whom we co-program and co-finance the shows happening in our venues. We also sometimes collaborate with music festivals or other structures. We also have smaller collaborations, which can be even very informal, like offering space for group discussions/working meetings… So there are many ways to collaborate. But we almost never rent space commercially, we prefer to welcome those events where we can really be part of  the process.

JL: How do you programme your season?

LC: According to the ADC’s main mission, which is regulated with an ongoing contract with the City of Geneva, we’re supposed to co-produce four to six bigger creations a year by ‘regional’ artists (from Geneva, Lausanne and the surrounding area). Then we have various collaborations and co-productions (some international in recent years), so through the season we host about 20 projects. There’s not one fixed scheme of supporting artists, each one asks for different, more tailor-made help. We of course also welcome a lot of (national or international) shows that we have not co-produced but seen somewhere else.

This is a very special time in Geneva: we have a lot of different generations of artists working, ranging from the ones who have been working for twenty years up to the young ones who are just coming up. We work with the whole spectrum of artists. Everyone has different needs. We work with artists on different levels: our main support is, of course, financial co-production, but we also offer rehearsal studios, residencies in the theatre with technical support, and we also do a lot of mentoring, especially for emerging artists. For example, we help them structure their production and their association, advise on budgets, help get in touch with different collaborators and other institutions, read and improve their dossiers and support writing their funding applications, and so on. And from an artistic point of view, of course, we’re really happy to be a partner in discussion, try to follow their artistic path closely, be of help if we can. It really depends on the artist: some really want to share the work with us early on, invite us to the studios, others prefer to work alone and share more the final outcome. As you can see, we are quite involved and, last but not least, we offer a lot of technical support. We’re really flexible and happy to help, to be there when needed and welcomed and stay quite distant if that works better for the process. Artists however really appreciate this very close connection and we try to be as natural,flexible and easy-going with them as possible.

Through the aforementioned Emergentia framework, we can help emerging artists, and in Switzerland there are quite a few support programmes and funds for these first productions these days. But if you already made your debut, what’s next? Usually you’re all alone and nobody helps you anymore. So we decided to address this situation and, since last year, we have been able to obtain additional funding to develop a tailor-made support programme aimed at these very artists. We select two or three artists each year, and work very closely with them. Our main support is of course financial so that they have more time to prepare their next creation and if they need anything (like extra research time, dramaturgical support, technical residency or anything else) we try to provide it. It is a tailor-made collaboration to foster artistic development.

JL: And how do you make your programming decisions?

LC: When we collaborate with other institutions, we share the decisions. For Emergentia, we make an open call every year, and the choice of 2–3 productions to support is made by all 3 partners: the ADC, L’Abri and the Theatre de l’Usine. As we are different structures with different realities, we discuss a lot about all the proposals we receive and try to focus on what we feel as the “urgency” of the artistic proposal. For the major creations in the Pavillon, we do not have an open call, the artists send us their proposals and dossiers directly. We then meet the artists, discuss their projects and then decide. And I don’t think we follow any fixed criteria. With many of the artists we have a really trusting artistic relationship, because we’ve been working with them here in Geneva for many years. We know and trust in their work. But we never impose exclusivity. Artists can always decide to produce their next show with another institution, especially if the Pavillon becomes too small for them, or if for some reason they would like to work with another institution, that’s totally fine with us. We like to support the projects that can really benefit from our support, and that makes sense here, and we also really like to work with a medium to long-term relationship.

JL: Would you say that the ADC has a specific aesthetic interest? An artistic identity that is recognisable in Switzerland and abroad?

LC: That’s a difficult question. In a way, yes, but in a way, no, because we are also concerned with diversity and we are always looking to broaden the scope of our programme. We present many different approaches to dance: very abstract, contemporary dance next to almost theatrical productions and next to street dance, etc.. So the programme can be really broad. But of course, as programming is very subjective, the aesthetic preferences and interests of the people making the choices are clearly involved. I believe we try our best to be open to different works and present very different artists. As an institution, we feel it’s very important to be challenged, to evolve through sometimes risky choices. It’s also the artists themselves who influence the institution a lot and that’s something we really like. We recently co-produced an artist who wanted to work with teenagers active on TikTok. This project was both a truly incredible piece on stage but also a great process for us as an institution. In some ways, it took us to a place we were not used to, working with a team of seven young people who brought their way of thinking and dancing to the stage. It happens quite often that a project that we host and support makes us rethink how we work, push ourselves to our own limits, and that’s really great!

JL: Have you noticed that the choice of projects also influences the audience and hopefully expands it?

LC: Yes, of course. We definitely feel that each project has a different audience. Actually it would be even more accurate to say audiences, as an audience is never a homogeneous body. At the ADC, we also have the opportunity to have a fairly stable core of viewers who have trusted our institution for a long time and are always eager to discover new things. We also do a lot of cultural outreach projects, both on and off stage. Last year, for example, two artists and one member of the ADC team followed a group of elderly and young people  who had just arrived in Geneva. The two groups shared their ‘Souvenir de danse’, their memories related to dance. They created a podcast together and at the end even gave a small performance on stage. We are very keen to develop more of these kinds of participatory projects and now we have a bit more money to finance them.

JL: Oh, so great, your work is being recognized by the city!

LC: Yes, we are very happy about this opportunity to develop. Since this year we have an increased subsidy, which is great. Both the City of Geneva and the region of Geneva  support us. We also pay no rent for the Pavillon or studios, as both buildings are owned by the city. The subsidies from the city and the region are part of a four-year contract with the team that specifies our missions and their support for these missions. With the increase in support this year, we will finally be able to develop our team, which has been a very pressing issue… We have only eight people working in the office (almost everyone working only part-time) and we have two permanent people in the technical team (the rest of the technical team is hired as extra workers). In 2025, the subsidy is supposed to increase again so that we would have an amount of two million Swiss francs.

JL: So, after several years in this amazing building in the heart of Geneva, what are the biggest challenges for the future? What are the next steps in the development of the Pavillon ADC?

LC: Development always means more support for artists. But not only. We also want to be able to support more research-based projects, foster and develop participatory projects, work on cultural outreach, host international residencies and further develop international co-productions, help develop sustainable careers and working conditions for artists, work closely with schools where the dancers and choreographers of tomorrow are studying, etc. And of course one of the main challenges will be to secure the Pavillon permanently in our current location. That’s the plan!

JL: So I am keeping my fingers crossed!

LC: And I am crossing my fingers for your project! I hope the institution that Warsaw will finally have will be as amazing as you imagine and that you will be able to focus on the exciting work with artists and audiences. And that your new home will really help to nurture the local scene. Because it’s been great for us! I can only wish you the same joy and success!

JL: And I hope that, as sister buildings (since the Pavillon in Geneva and the one in Warsaw are really exactly the same size and idea), we have established a stable connection and started to build a bridge between the Geneva and Warsaw dance communities! Can’t wait to welcome you to Warsaw!

LC: I’m also looking forward to discovering your place and dancing in it together!

Léo Chavaz is a dramaturg and co-programmer at the Pavillon ADC in Geneva. Previously, he worked at the Théâtre de l’Usine in Geneva and at the NOF – Nouvel Opéra Fribourg. He holds a Certificate of Advanced Study in Dramaturgy from the University of Lausanne and La Manufacture – University for Performing Arts in Switzerland. He also works as an external eye/dramaturge for various stage productions.